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	<title>Comments for Whatever comes in life, take it on your feet.</title>
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	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 16:28:20 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Coding standards, and why they are bad. by Gary McNickle</title>
		<link>http://mcnickle.org/coding-standards-and-why-they-are-bad/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary McNickle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 16:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mcnickle.org/?p=106#comment-6</guid>
		<description>I disagree with Robert Martin about consistency.  I don&#039;t know about you, but when reviewing code, rarely can I see much more than oh... 30-40 lines of code at once.  Within those 30 or so lines, consistency is marginally important, but throughout all of the lines and modules of a software product? Hardly.

I maintain that any &#039;good&#039; developer is going to write code that is more or less easy to follow.  What particular style they use, or even how consistent they are in their style is not important, so long as it is easily readable.  You might argue that &#039;easily readable&#039; implies consistency, and I would generally agree, at least superficially.

My point about attempting to enforce a coding standard comes down to this;  it is nearly impossible, and therefore not worth the effort.  We can argue all day about consistency, but I still maintain that solid programming principles are far more important and lead to far more maintainable code than any consistency of style ever will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree with Robert Martin about consistency.  I don&#8217;t know about you, but when reviewing code, rarely can I see much more than oh&#8230; 30-40 lines of code at once.  Within those 30 or so lines, consistency is marginally important, but throughout all of the lines and modules of a software product? Hardly.</p>
<p>I maintain that any &#8216;good&#8217; developer is going to write code that is more or less easy to follow.  What particular style they use, or even how consistent they are in their style is not important, so long as it is easily readable.  You might argue that &#8216;easily readable&#8217; implies consistency, and I would generally agree, at least superficially.</p>
<p>My point about attempting to enforce a coding standard comes down to this;  it is nearly impossible, and therefore not worth the effort.  We can argue all day about consistency, but I still maintain that solid programming principles are far more important and lead to far more maintainable code than any consistency of style ever will.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Coding standards, and why they are bad. by wekempf</title>
		<link>http://mcnickle.org/coding-standards-and-why-they-are-bad/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>wekempf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 20:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mcnickle.org/?p=106#comment-5</guid>
		<description>I typed a rather long reply and forgot the &quot;password&quot; when posting, then IE didn&#039;t save the text when I hit back. :P I&#039;m not going to reproduce all of the reply again, but a few highlights.

I have asked myself why style is important to me, and the answer is neither of the answers you give (which I&#039;d argue are the same answer). See, as I already stated, I don&#039;t care what the style is. It could be a style I personally dislike. You know, like the &quot;standard&quot; Java style. Using that style consistently is far preferable to working with a codebase that has numerous styles. The answer I give is that consistent formatting makes the code easier to read and comprehend, and we spend more time reading code than writing code.

Design and style are both important when it comes to maintainability. You&#039;re right that &quot;bad code&quot; isn&#039;t more maintainable when formatted nicely. However, that doesn&#039;t mean that &quot;good code&quot; that doesn&#039;t follow a consistent style is not markedly harder to maintain than the same code with a consistent style. I suspect deep down you actually agree with this, as you admit to following the &quot;when in Rome&quot; rule (keeping a consistent style within a file you are editing). Once you reach that conclusion it&#039;s just logical to carry it throughout a project and to mandate a single style everywhere. The push back that makes this difficult to do always comes from the religious battles associated. I just refuse to participate in those particular religious battles. Give me a style, any style, and I&#039;ll follow it consistently and be happy to do so. If only others could do the same. Like another one of our coworkers is fond of saying, though, &quot;people are broken.&quot;

You&#039;ve brought up &quot;Clean Code&quot; and Uncle Bob a few times here. What does Uncle Bob have to say on this subject? From Chapter 5 of Clean Code:

&lt;q cite=&quot;Clean Code&quot;&gt;Remember, a good software system is composed of a set of documents that read nicely. They need to have a consistent and smooth style. The reader needs to be able to trust that the formatting gestures he or she has seen in one source file will mean the same thing in others. The last thing we want to do is add more complexity to the source code by writing it in a jumble of different individual styles.&lt;/q&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I typed a rather long reply and forgot the &#8220;password&#8221; when posting, then IE didn&#8217;t save the text when I hit back. <img src='http://mcnickle.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' />  I&#8217;m not going to reproduce all of the reply again, but a few highlights.</p>
<p>I have asked myself why style is important to me, and the answer is neither of the answers you give (which I&#8217;d argue are the same answer). See, as I already stated, I don&#8217;t care what the style is. It could be a style I personally dislike. You know, like the &#8220;standard&#8221; Java style. Using that style consistently is far preferable to working with a codebase that has numerous styles. The answer I give is that consistent formatting makes the code easier to read and comprehend, and we spend more time reading code than writing code.</p>
<p>Design and style are both important when it comes to maintainability. You&#8217;re right that &#8220;bad code&#8221; isn&#8217;t more maintainable when formatted nicely. However, that doesn&#8217;t mean that &#8220;good code&#8221; that doesn&#8217;t follow a consistent style is not markedly harder to maintain than the same code with a consistent style. I suspect deep down you actually agree with this, as you admit to following the &#8220;when in Rome&#8221; rule (keeping a consistent style within a file you are editing). Once you reach that conclusion it&#8217;s just logical to carry it throughout a project and to mandate a single style everywhere. The push back that makes this difficult to do always comes from the religious battles associated. I just refuse to participate in those particular religious battles. Give me a style, any style, and I&#8217;ll follow it consistently and be happy to do so. If only others could do the same. Like another one of our coworkers is fond of saying, though, &#8220;people are broken.&#8221;</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve brought up &#8220;Clean Code&#8221; and Uncle Bob a few times here. What does Uncle Bob have to say on this subject? From Chapter 5 of Clean Code:</p>
<p><q cite="Clean Code">Remember, a good software system is composed of a set of documents that read nicely. They need to have a consistent and smooth style. The reader needs to be able to trust that the formatting gestures he or she has seen in one source file will mean the same thing in others. The last thing we want to do is add more complexity to the source code by writing it in a jumble of different individual styles.</q></p>
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		<title>Comment on Coding standards, and why they are bad. by Gary McNickle</title>
		<link>http://mcnickle.org/coding-standards-and-why-they-are-bad/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary McNickle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2012 19:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mcnickle.org/?p=106#comment-4</guid>
		<description>Like you, when editing code that is not my own I try to keep a consistent style, but more for consistency than any other reason.

Ask yourself why style is so important to you.  Is it personal preference? Or is it because it is easier for you to read code that is written in a style that you are comfortable with?

&#039;Clean code&#039; is all about maintainability.  No style will make bad code maintainable.  No style will improve bad code, though I will grant you that some styles are easier for me to follow than others.  I couldn&#039;t tell you how many times I&#039;ve reviewed &#039;pretty&#039; code that was a nightmare to maintain.

I believe that it is a waste of time for an organization to attempt to enforce a standard style.  That time is much better spent helping to teach your developers to write better code.  Also, as a developer, focusing on solid programming principles will do much more to improve the overall maintainability of your code than any style ever will.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like you, when editing code that is not my own I try to keep a consistent style, but more for consistency than any other reason.</p>
<p>Ask yourself why style is so important to you.  Is it personal preference? Or is it because it is easier for you to read code that is written in a style that you are comfortable with?</p>
<p>&#8216;Clean code&#8217; is all about maintainability.  No style will make bad code maintainable.  No style will improve bad code, though I will grant you that some styles are easier for me to follow than others.  I couldn&#8217;t tell you how many times I&#8217;ve reviewed &#8216;pretty&#8217; code that was a nightmare to maintain.</p>
<p>I believe that it is a waste of time for an organization to attempt to enforce a standard style.  That time is much better spent helping to teach your developers to write better code.  Also, as a developer, focusing on solid programming principles will do much more to improve the overall maintainability of your code than any style ever will.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Coding standards, and why they are bad. by wekempf</title>
		<link>http://mcnickle.org/coding-standards-and-why-they-are-bad/#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>wekempf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2012 14:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mcnickle.org/?p=106#comment-3</guid>
		<description>Hmm... I love religious wars. :)

Can&#039;t agree with you, on anything other than all attempts to enforce a coding standard fail. That&#039;s said, but seems to be a fact.

I don&#039;t adhere to any &quot;religious belief&quot; about any particular style. Coding styles are aesthetic. Like all such things, we all differ in what we find pleasing. I know what I like, but wouldn&#039;t care to argue that you must like it too. So why do I claim to disagree? Because style does matter, even if I don&#039;t care fore the style being used.

Ever read a book that was started by one author and finished by another? Or, worse, a book written by several authors? If those authors aren&#039;t very careful to try and mimick the style of the original author, the result is almost always horrible. There&#039;s psychology at play here. It&#039;s hard for people to ignore the differences and concentrate on the story. The same problem occurs in code. At the very least, you should &quot;mimic&quot; the style used in the file you&#039;re currently editing. If you can agree to that (and if you can&#039;t, not sure there&#039;s much discussion left to have, as we&#039;ll have to agree to disagree) then it&#039;s not much of a stretch to extend it to an entire project. My take is, give me a standard, any standard, and I&#039;ll follow it whether I care for it or not, as the overall experience with the code is improved. Case in point, there&#039;s several &quot;rules&quot; that annoy the crap out of me in StyleCop (a code analysis tool for enforcing style guidelines in C# code). Yet I leave all the rules on and adhere to the tools complaints in all of my OpenSource endeavors. I truly believe the code benefits from this, and in no way &quot;hinders my productivity&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm&#8230; I love religious wars. <img src='http://mcnickle.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Can&#8217;t agree with you, on anything other than all attempts to enforce a coding standard fail. That&#8217;s said, but seems to be a fact.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t adhere to any &#8220;religious belief&#8221; about any particular style. Coding styles are aesthetic. Like all such things, we all differ in what we find pleasing. I know what I like, but wouldn&#8217;t care to argue that you must like it too. So why do I claim to disagree? Because style does matter, even if I don&#8217;t care fore the style being used.</p>
<p>Ever read a book that was started by one author and finished by another? Or, worse, a book written by several authors? If those authors aren&#8217;t very careful to try and mimick the style of the original author, the result is almost always horrible. There&#8217;s psychology at play here. It&#8217;s hard for people to ignore the differences and concentrate on the story. The same problem occurs in code. At the very least, you should &#8220;mimic&#8221; the style used in the file you&#8217;re currently editing. If you can agree to that (and if you can&#8217;t, not sure there&#8217;s much discussion left to have, as we&#8217;ll have to agree to disagree) then it&#8217;s not much of a stretch to extend it to an entire project. My take is, give me a standard, any standard, and I&#8217;ll follow it whether I care for it or not, as the overall experience with the code is improved. Case in point, there&#8217;s several &#8220;rules&#8221; that annoy the crap out of me in StyleCop (a code analysis tool for enforcing style guidelines in C# code). Yet I leave all the rules on and adhere to the tools complaints in all of my OpenSource endeavors. I truly believe the code benefits from this, and in no way &#8220;hinders my productivity&#8221;.</p>
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